Detailed Discussion on the World of Golf Podcasting and the Unseen Side of Professional Golf with Mike McNamara
Mike McNamara, host of the golf podcast "The Amateur Hour," shares his background and experiences in the golf industry. He started the podcast in 2017, conducting over 50 interviews with notable golf personalities, including professional players like Max Homa and Shane Lowry. McNamara also covers college basketball and football for the Action Network while producing golf-related content. He emphasizes his passion for golf and his active participation in the sport.
Despite the challenges of entering a saturated podcast market, McNamara believes in carving out a niche and building connections with potential guests. Although he is not currently producing regular episodes, he values the relationships he has formed through the podcast and remains engaged with the golf community. McNamara highlights the importance of research and a conversational approach when interviewing guests, aiming for a well-rounded discussion.
McNamara discusses one of his most interesting guests, Kessler Karain, Patrick Reed's caddy and brother-in-law. He explores the dynamic between Karain and Reed, particularly in regards to Reed's controversial reputation. McNamara's interviews reveal the common challenges faced by aspiring pro golfers, the competitive nature of the sport, and the desire to make golf more accessible to younger generations.
The interview also touches on the differences between professional golf tours and the challenges faced by players at different levels. McNamara highlights the contrasting lifestyles between lower-ranked players on the Korn Ferry Tour and mini tours, who often face financial struggles, and higher-ranked players who enjoy private flights and other luxuries. McNamara expresses his support for underdog stories and acknowledges the immense pressure faced by players trying to secure their livelihoods.
Mike McNamara
Thanks for having me on Sajiv. Excited to be on. I've heard a lot from Cam and others about what you're doing with this generational golf. Excited to be on. A little bit of background about myself. I started a golf podcast called The Amateur Hour with a couple of good buddies that I grew up with, went to high school with back in 2017 right when we were coming out of college and we had a good four or five year run there. Probably conducted 50 plus interviews with guys like Max Homa, Shane Lowry, Tommy Fleetwood, some of the stars of the game, some LPGA players, some media guys like Steve Sand. So it was a really cool experience. I grew up watching the majors but always being a little bit more of a football and basketball guy. And then within the last six, seven years have really taken a following of the PGA Tour to all things golf related. And now I'm a guy. We'll talk every week, we watch the tournaments, we make picks, I gamble on golf, whatever it may be, so very much around the game as well as certainly out there playing a good amount as well.
Mike McNamara
That's more of a work in progress. But yeah, excited to be on with you.
Sajiv Mehta
And how do you other than just watching tournaments and stuff, is there any other way that you consume golf content these days?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, so I work over with the Action Network on the side. I cover more of our college basketball and college football verticals, but those guys have a lot of really good golf content as well. Led by Jason Sobel and crew, they put out a lot of content, whether it's a tournament preview, course analysis, picks, power rankings for a given week, that type of thing. So I'm very much in tune with the PGA Tour on a weekly basis, whether that be we're in a pool where you pick one guy a week, you can only use him once a year following tournaments, the majors, all of it. Now you got this LIV golf coming up in competition as well. So it's definitely an interesting time to be following the sport. There's tons of young talent at all levels. It's never been in my opinion at least it's never been harder to win on Tour than it is right now with how deep these fields are, but an exciting time for the game overall.
Sajiv Mehta
And speaking of your podcast, what do you say are like the biggest challenges of trying to start a new piece of golf media or a podcast? Anything really in the golf media realm.
Mike McNamara
Yeah, nowadays it seems like everyone and their mother has a podcast. So it's tough, man. We started, as I said, back in 2017, similar to you, kind of from scratch, no real connections in the game. You kind of have to pay your dues early, really get it out of the dirt. It's almost like a sales rule a little bit in terms of looking for guests, whether it's sliding in the DMs or reaching out to people with whatever numbers you have. Try and grow a following, grow a guest list. Obviously, there's the established podcasts in golf right now, the no laying ups, the foreplay guys that have the luxury of relying on Dave Portnoy's budget and all. There's always, as I tell people, there's always room to carve out a space and find your niche. So certainly respect kind of what you're doing and wish you the best of luck with it.
Sajiv Mehta
Cool. And why did you come up with the idea you just decided to get together with your budies and start a podcast? Was there any other?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, so it was about a year after we had really gotten into the it. We were playing a ton. We're watching all the, you know, as sports guys at that. There's everyone and their mother wants to talk NFL, fantasy football, college football, college hoops, NBA. But at that time, especially, this was pre-COVID golf was still a little bit on the back burner in terms of the regular, especially guys our age, your age. Golf wasn't a sport that got a ton of buzz at that time. So we kind of felt like it was a little bit of an untapped market there. We felt like we had the knowledge to try and connect with a little bit more of the younger generation that you hear pros talk about it all the time. How do we make the game more exciting for the younger generation? So we saw it as an opportunity, and we were able to kind of build a solid following build. As I said, we got guests that on day one, we would have never thought were possible to have on and come on over the course of the run. And, yeah, we're not doing it regularly right now with schedules and whatnot, but still cool to look back on and see the episodes we did know.
Mike McNamara
I live down in Austin now. I go to the Match Play event down there at Austin Country Club every year, go for free, go out to dinner with some of the guys that we've had on every week there. So it's cool to go to events now, talk with some of the relationships that you make in doing it. So even though we're not doing it full time now, definitely still around the game as much as we can.
Sajiv Mehta
Okay, and who would you say was, like, your best interview or most interesting interview?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, that's a good question. I think one that stands out would be Kessler Karain. He's Patrick Reed's caddy, actually, Patrick's brother in law as well. And he was always interesting because he came on our show a week after they won the Masters together. And then it kind of became a running joke that anytime they won, he would come on and it was interesting because Patrick Reed has that kind of villain like persona out there right now, and some of that due to his own doing. So it was interesting to kind of talk with Kessler, who is about as down to earth as he can be. Super chill, great guy. So how he kind of balances being on the bag of a guy like, who, you know, has certainly struggled to keep his name out of headlines at times. Sometimes, I think, is the media doing, and sometimes he can't get out of his own way a little bit, but always cool to hear Kessler stories. And he's a Texas guy, lives down in Houston, so I've played a couple of rounds with him over the years. Great guy.
Sajiv Mehta
And within all these interviews that you conducted, was there, like, when you debated about some current events in golf? Were there any patterns that you saw in the opinions about pro golf and where it's headed?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, I think there's definitely different perspectives. I think one common trend that we always heard this is from talking to Korn Ferry guys, talking to PGA players, talking to mini Tour guys, talking to some LPGA players. Is it's a grind right now, there's hundreds of thousands of aspiring pro golfers that have been playing their entire lives. And there's right now, probably around 150 to 200 full time PGA Tour cards out there. So a lot of the times, those guys trying to make it to that next step, it's, how do you catch lightning in the bottle for one week and go win a tournament? And just like that, can make life changing money and make a jump onto that next Tour. So common trends are just how hard it is, how consistently good you have to be. You hear about scratch golfers all the time, but the difference between a scratch golfer and someone who can contend on a pro tour is a glaring difference. And then I think the other thing would be everyone, especially with COVID how many more people you saw? It was really the only thing you could do for five, six months there.
Mike McNamara
So you saw tons of more people get out and want to play. And I think that's one thing we always heard from individuals that we had on was, everyone wants to keep growing the game. Does it have to be something where it is only played by 60 year old retired dudes? The more people of various age groups you can get out there, the better off the game is going to be.
Sajiv Mehta
Yeah. And you kind of went into every interview brand new and open, asking different questions, but you think it would have been easier if you had kind of a thread connecting your interviews.
Mike McNamara
Yeah, we were always over zoom, kind of like we're doing right now, which certainly makes it more challenging. You don't have that in person, back and forth, kind of more personable feel to it, but, yeah, I would say ours was kind of a combination. Like, we'd prep, we'd have questions, we are going to run with, we had segments, but then we also had a little bit of that kind of free flowing conversational style that we wanted to incorporate as well. So definitely a mix of both aspects. But yeah, the biggest thing I would recommend to you is do your homework on your guests, try and come prepared each interview. It just helps with it all, really.
Sajiv Mehta
And what would you say is the most effective way that you did your homework?
Mike McNamara
Some of the information is readily available, like their career background, where they played in college, notable wins and top performances. I mean, some of that, some of that you can find anywhere. It takes a couple of clicks in a Google search, but then there's a little bit more of the intangible side where maybe go listen to a ten minute interview they've done with someone else or go read an article on an individual story or a certain part of their past that they've talked about publicly, stuff like that. Just so you can bring a more unique perspective to the conversation, I think is all beneficial.
Sajiv Mehta
And how did you like, I heard that a big challenge was getting off the ground was just the Cold outreach. What was your best strategy, you think, as you were getting off the ground to outreach to people? Is it just like cold, just like boom, boom, boom? DMs yeah.
Mike McNamara
I would say, number one, be creative, and number two, have a short memory. If someone doesn't respond to you, oh, well, onto the next one. You got to be bold in that sense. There were times where we were probably at a tournament and started talking. We captured. Colt knows, for example. He's now one of the CBS main commentators. We saw him. We were out for the Waste Management phoenix Open in Scottsdale. We saw him out at a bar in Old Town Scottsdale on a Friday night after the tournament. Got in conversation with him, talked for probably 20-30 minutes, ultimately took down his number. Then we ended up interviewing him two weeks later. Now, we still keep in touch. You never know when or where it's going to be, but right place, right time, be assertive, reach out. Especially the non established guys on the smaller tours, they don't have that big a following right now, so they're going to see your Instagram message, they're going to see your Tweet, so don't be afraid to be persistent there. And then you build from there. They have connections, different people, resources, kind of stockpile along the way.
Mike McNamara
So, yeah, that's what I would say to that.
Sajiv Mehta
Okay. And when you're talking to players, and I know you talked to some caddies, is there like a difference that you see when you talk to them about the game or about stuff that goes on on tour. Is there like a tangible difference?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, I think a player sees the game in a slightly different lens than probably a caddy. We did interview probably four or five caddies, Joe Scovron, who was on Ricky Fowler's Bag and now Tom Kim's bag was another. And they have that perspective where they've worked with different players. They are around a guy for 30 weeks out of the year, so they know their strengths and weaknesses. They know when the right time is to say something and when the right time is to kind of stand back. So that's a unique perspective. Players kind of can open up more on the work and the practice and all the hours they put in to get to where they are now and kind of take you through how much of a big grind it is in professional golf. They'll have their own unique stories there. And then some of the media guys too, they'll have a little bit of a different view of what it's like to travel around the country covering different tournaments with travel and all that too.
Sajiv Mehta
Okay. And between the different levels of players like college or like Korn Ferry or some of the mini tours, again, is there any perspectives difference that you see?
Mike McNamara
Just the lifestyle. Like these Korn Ferry guys and the mini tour guys, they're flying in seat 32 B connecting in Tulsa to get to Palm Springs, and they're staying at a two star hotels just to have enough funds to be able to enter that tournament. It's a grind from a financial standpoint right now until you make it to that next tour, especially guys that don't come from a ton of money. Whereas once you crack that top 50 in the world or whatever it is, you're largely flying private and getting rental cars provided you by the hosts every tournament. So it's just a crazy different lifestyle on the smaller tours until you can get to that next step. And that's why I always kind of root for those stories. When you see a guy that Monday qualifies his way into an event and then finds himself in the mix that week. Because Sunday pressure is one thing when you're trying to win a tournament and you're competitive, but it's another thing when your livelihood and your job is kind of riding on it, so to speak. So that's another kind of crazy element to the game, is just how pressure packed a back nine on a Sunday can be for someone who's not at the PGA Tour right now.
Sajiv Mehta
And how would you say was the most effective strategy for coming up with questions? Because obviously you interviewed a wide variety of people. Is there like a strategy that you came up with to formulate questions or is it different for every person?
Mike McNamara
Yeah, it's different. I mean, each person you want to be creative, obviously. Everyone knows that Jordan Speed won the Masters in 2015 you don't need to ask him three questions about Augusta that week. You got to be creative. You got to find ways to ask unique questions that are going to generate stories that haven't necessarily been told and then asking individuals about some of their trials and tribulations. We also always did a segment, we called it the 62nd Scramble, which was more of a rapid fire, kind of light hearted yes or no type question, oftentimes not even golf related, just to kind of show a little bit of the personality behind the individual. And then you kind of see a balance. It between the technical questions, the golf questions, then also trying to find out a little bit more about what he or she's like at a personal level. Get them talking from the hip a little bit more. I think it's always good whenever you're doing an interview. I think it's always good if you can make the person feel comfortable, get them to open up and be really genuine on there.
Sajiv Mehta
Well, thank you for answering my questions. It really gave me good insight into the process.
Mike McNamara
Yeah, absolutely a pleasure to be on and certainly looking forward to seeing your successes the rest of the way. Let me know if you need anything. Happy to help and look forward to seeing you continue to grow this thing.